SPI 821: How to Get Paid to Speak with Grant Baldwin

SPI 821: How to Get Paid to Speak with Grant Baldwin

Grant Baldwin: This is the part where we want to like fast forward to like, man, dude, just tell me how to book gigs. But if you don’t have these other pieces in place first, it’s really difficult to book gigs because you don’t know who you’re speaking to, what you speak about, you don’t have any marketing assets.

So sometimes the mistake speakers will make is going like, I got my website. I got my video. And now I just sit back and I wait for the phone to ring. I’m like, it just doesn’t work like that. Nobody cares. Like if you build it, they will not come. And so at this point, we have to be much more proactive in identifying the types of events that we would be a good fit for starting conversations with them, reaching out, following up, and just being intentional about it.

Pat Flynn: I haven’t seen this man in years, and as soon as we started talking, it was as if we had never left each other. And no, I’m not talking about Chris Ducker, although we will have him on the show later in the year. I’m talking about another bald man, and bald is a part of his name, but I hope that doesn’t offend them, but no.

They wear it loud and proud. What am I saying? This is Grant Baldwin. Who you might know from speaker lab. Grant and I have crossed paths several times. I’ve actually learned quite a bit from him in the world of speaking. He in fact helped me out specifically on one particular talk and we were in a hotel room just a few hours before I was going to go on stage and he really, really helped me out.

And so if you’re looking to understand how to get your first gig on stage, your first speaking opportunity, and perhaps your first paid speaking opportunity, maybe you’ve been speaking quite a bit, but you just haven’t been able to get paid for it yet, Grant’s going to break it down for you. Grant over at TheSpeakerLab.com, go ahead and check them out.

And in fact, this episode was filmed in person. When I went to Tennessee for a mastermind meeting with other authors, I came in a little early so that I could have some time to meet with not just Chris Ducker, but Grant Baldwin also hung out with Jeff Rose while there.

And Grant and I decided to book some time at a studio to swap podcast episodes. And I’m on his show, The Speaker Lab. Right now you’re about to listen to him on mine. So here he is, Grant Baldwin from The Speaker Lab.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network, a show that’s all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, he’s eaten more broccoli in 2024 than he has in his whole life, Pat Flynn.

Pat Flynn: Grant Baldwin. Welcome to the show.

Grant Baldwin: Hey man, this is fun. We’re doing this in person.

Pat Flynn: In person. I want to do a lot more of these. I know we just did a episode on your show, The Speaker Lab, which was really fun. So everybody should go check that out.

Grant was also a guest on episode 416. So half the episodes ago. It’s been a long time.

Grant Baldwin: You did 800?

Pat Flynn: Over 800. Yeah.

Grant Baldwin: That’s crazy, man. Yeah. One thing we learned from you in podcasting is we recently had our 500th episode. And in order to do a 500th episode, you can’t just do it on your own. You’ve got to bring in a guest host.

And so we have one guy that. is the known 500th guest host. We also use Shane Sams.

Pat Flynn: Oh, did you? So shout out to Shane. Shane, dude, he’s gonna pass around. It was so a great kind of co host or stand in host for sure. Yeah, he’s phenomenal. And podcast too. Indeed, indeed. So podcasting is great, but so is speaking, which is what you’re known for and you’ve helped How many people have you helped land gigs now?

Grant Baldwin: Thousands. Yeah, thousands of speakers. So I was a full time speaker for several years and was doing 60, 70 paid gigs a year. And when I got started to speak, I used to be a youth pastor. And then that gave me a lot of opportunities to speak. And speaking like a lot of people is something I really enjoyed, I wanted to do more of.

But this was 18, 19 years ago, and I just didn’t know, like, How do you find gigs? And what do you speak about? And who are your speakers? And there were no podcasts or courses or trainings or resources on this. So I was emailing speakers and stalking speakers and learned a couple of things.

And then after doing it for several years, I was doing 500, 600 paid gigs myself over several years, people were asking me the same questions of like, How do I do this? And how do I get paid? And what do I speak about? And so we started doing some coaching training around that. That really evolved into The Speaker Lab.

So I don’t know the exact count, but we’ve worked with a lot of speakers.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. A lot. When you say you were stalking speakers back in the day, who was it that you were stalking? And obviously not stalking. Yeah. Like who were you following and what were you learning.

Grant Baldwin: From a guy that was super helpful early on? I think a friend of yours as well, Josh ship was super helpful because I was, as a former youth pastor, I wanted to do speaking in the youth space and I wasn’t just really sure what that looked like. Like, and there weren’t a ton of speakers who were doing that. And so I had emailed Josh and he still does a ton of speaking, still friends with him.

Something like that. So his first iteration of that, we were living in Missouri at the time. He said, Hey, I’m thinking about hosting a workshop, a kind of a bootcamp thing in Dallas, like this one day deal. And he said it was going to be a thousand dollars. And he may as well said it’s a billion dollars because I just didn’t have it, but it was like, I got to get to that event.

I got to figure out how to be there. So I ended up going to the event and there’s probably a dozen people there or something got to meet Josh and I just, that gave me a ton of confidence. Like one thing we were just talking about before in our podcast on the Speaker Lab is, you know, you and I’ve been at this for a while.

And so people may look at and be like, Oh, they have some special ability or talent or secret sauce that I don’t have. And I, I think that, you know, being in person at that type of event and meeting Josh was like, Oh, like Josh is just a normal dude, like me. And if he can figure this out, I can figure this out.

And there’s a playbook here and a formula and I just, I need to put in the work, you know, Josh has put in the work. And so that was very like humanizing for me. And it just gave me a ton of confidence that like, I, I think I can do this.

Pat Flynn: I do want to get into how to land your first gig and how to create a signature talk, those kinds of things. But I want to hear from you since you’re the expert, what makes a great speaker a great speaker.

Grant Baldwin: I think there’s certainly like a subjective element to it, because it’s kind of like what makes music great or what makes a movie great. You know, there, there’s one type of music or movie that someone may love and a different person may be like, eh, it’s just not my cup of tea.

You know, yeah. So there’s a certain subjective element, but there are a few things that I think are consistent across the board. One thing that any speaker can do is be really, really well prepared. So there’s a difference between a speaker who’s like, yeah, I’m just kind of charismatic and I’m just going to hop up on stage and kind of wing it and hopefully it all works out.

But the, the difference is a speaker who says, no, no, I’m, I’m going to really think through what I’m communicating and what I’m saying. This is part of what makes you a great speaker is you really spend the time behind the scenes.

Pat Flynn: I feel like I overprepare.

Grant Baldwin: And it’s possible to overprepare to the point where all of a sudden it becomes fake, it doesn’t become genuine. Because at the end of the day, like you are one human talking to a collection of other humans. So you need to act like a human. But if we said right now, Hey Pat, tell us about when you proposed to April. Like, you were there, you could probably tell us that story, but if we said, take an hour, go away, go in the other room here and write out of when you proposed to April and then come back and tell us that story, you could probably just tell us a better story, right?

The elements of it are going to be the same, right? If I’m thinking through the details of it and what did we say to each other and where were we and what were we wearing and who did we call and what were our emotions and what was the reaction and like all of that. It probably just makes for a better story as a really spending the time behind the scenes to prepare, which is something that any speaker at any level can do.

And so in a similar way of, if you look at like a great comedian, you know, sometimes we just think like, oh, they’re just, they’re funny. And they hop up on stage and tell jokes and it all just works out. It’s like, eh, not exactly. Like there’s intentionality that happens behind the scenes that we don’t see.

So by the time they get up on stage, it’s like, Oh wow. They are really, really good. And it almost looks effortless, but it’s because of the amount of work that went in behind the scenes that makes it look effortless. So that’s something that like any speaker at any level can do in order to be great on stage.

Pat Flynn: I love that. I know comedians will often test their jokes in front of smaller stages or out, out in the world. How might a speaker test something before it ends up on a stage one day for them?

Grant Baldwin: Yeah. So some of this depends on like the stakes of where you may be presenting. Okay. So on one of the spectrum, you may have, we were talking about, you just hosted an event that had 3,700 people.

Right. So if you’re presenting at Card Party, then you probably aren’t going to hop up and be like, this is all new material and I’ve never tried this before and I hope it works. Right. You’re probably going to be presenting some material that I’m a bit more confident that it works. Whereas maybe in this context, you know, after this, You and I are going to dinner with a couple of buddies.

And so in that context, I may have like, I’m kind of kicking around this like idea or this story or this thought. And so I might throw out some things there or in a podcast thing or in a, I’m recording a social media video or something, or I’m at a conversation with some colleagues at work or whatever the situation or context may be where it’s a much lower stakes environment.

And maybe this works and maybe this doesn’t work and maybe it’ll never see the light of day. And so exactly what you’re talking about, a comedian will kind of, they’ll test different material. In low stakes environment. So for example, I have a younger sister and she lives in Missouri. She happened to be in New York city last week and went to the Comedy Cellar, one of those little like tiny venues, you know, and there’s like 20, 30, 40 seats there.

There’s nobody there. And she said, you just went on a random night and David Attell happened to be there. And goes up there and it’s just trying material. And some stuff may end up on a Netflix special someday. And some of it may see, never see the light of day and in that type of low stakes environment, a comedian is just going to test stuff and maybe this works and maybe this doesn’t, but then by the time it gets to a Netflix or an HBO special or whatever it may be, that content is really well dialed in and polished and the same thing can be true for a speaker.

And so look for those type of opportunities where it’s like, ah, I’m just going to try this story or this idea and see if it resonates or see if it sticks.

Pat Flynn: Or might you even get. Ideas to test what sparks inspiration for certain things that end up in your talk.

Grant Baldwin: So some of it is just having your radar up, you know, so there’s certain things that may happen in life that may just be kind of a, like a normal everyday thing that you don’t really think of.

But if you’re just with your radar up going, like, I’m just going to capture this and maybe the type of thing where either you leave yourself an audio note, or I personally, I do a lot of notes on my phone where I’ll just write something down and I don’t, something grabbed my attention and I don’t know if there is anything to it and there may be nothing to it, but I’m just, I’m just capturing it.

My radar is up and I’m kind of capturing this experience at this moment or this potential story. And at that point, I’m just kind of like, I’m carrying it around. And so again, I don’t know if anything’s going to come of it. And so I heard one time that things taste better that have been cooked in a crock pot versus things that have been cooked in a microwave.

Things taste better they’ve been cooked in a crockpot versus a microwave. So when something happens and I’m just going to kind of carry it with me, I’m just marinating on it. I’m just letting it sit there. It’s sitting in the crockpot and maybe I overcook it. Maybe it becomes nothing or maybe you’re like, I’ve got this talk coming up in six months or I was looking for this illustration or this analogy or this metaphor for this thing.

And that really stuck out to me and grabbed me from something that happened a long time ago. So having your radar up just throughout life. And we kind of talked about comedians for a second there. How often is like a, a good comedian, someone who’s just kind of like pointing out everyday things and things that just happen in life.

And how many of you have ever been in the grocery store and this happened, or you’ve been traveling, you’ve been on a plane and this happened and the audience is like, that’s so true. I’ve had that happen to me. And it wasn’t that something unusual happened. It’s just, it’s an everyday experience that they happen to notice.

Like, have you ever thought about that? How when this happens, like this is weird or funny or interesting or whatever, but it’s because their radar is up looking for those little things.

Pat Flynn: Like I think we often when we see other speakers talk, especially well known ones, they’re talking about big things that have happened, like life changing stories.

I remember watching Brendan Burchard talk and he talked about his life story and accidents that have happened and people come up and they talk about recovering from cancer and these kinds of thing. And it’s like, wow, that is so inspirational. Like you were an incredible speaker. I don’t have a life changing story like that, therefore I cannot talk on a stage or provide value.

But you’re saying that’s not true. And I know this is not true because I build what I call a story bank where I try to keep my radar up and pay attention to things that happen. And I like that analogy of having it marinate there for a while because you don’t often know where it may or may not fit in.

But when you can go back to that and look at it and remember those things, like I remember telling a story once on stage in a keynote about a time that Keone had asked to play iPad in the car, and we said no, and it was a such a small moment, but I fine tune that because the end of that story, he actually ended up getting the iPad because he understood who his audience was. Me.

He told me that I can play Minecraft, learn how to become a better builder and teach you how to become a better architect. Okay. And I was like, okay, you made the connection of, you know, I told it in a much better, more dramatic kind of way, but it really hit home. But it was just a little moment that I remembered a couple days later when I was building this presentation.

And thankfully I had still remembered it because so often these moments just passes by and they’re forgotten forever. Do you have a particular app or something that you use to capture those moments when they happen?

Grant Baldwin: The methodology is, there’s a lot of ways you could be an audio note. I do that a lot.

I’ll also use just notes, just to build a notes app on my phone. I used to use Evernote quite a bit. I know some people who will carry around, I got a buddy who carries like a little tiny, like field notes, notepad that just goes in his pocket, right? Whatever the method is, is fine, but just do something that you, you use consistently.

I want to go back. If I could just to something you mentioned where when you guys started speaking the oftentimes we assume we got to look at someone who has some crazy life story. And oftentimes that’s a big limiting belief for speakers and thinking like, well, I have never had cancer. I’ve never won an Olympic medal.

I’ve never climbed Mount Everest. You know, I’ve never overcome some obstacle where someone would say like, oh, well of course that person should be a speaker. I felt the same way. Like I’m a, I’m a white male from the Midwest who came from a normal middle class family. Like I’ve never broken a bone. Like there’s nothing on paper, no nothing at all. You know, there’s no. What we would think would be a qualifying thing. So for example, a speaker buddy of mine, I met early on, I saw him speak and we became friends. He had cancer as a child, had a leg amputated and went on to become a one legged downhill skier in the Paralympics. And I was just like, wow, that is really impressive.

Like I can’t, I haven’t done that. Right. Another example would be a mutual friend, Hal Elrod, you know, Hal has faced death. He died for two minutes, legitimately like multiple times, you know, and you’re like, I don’t have any story like that, you know? So, but the point being is as a speaker, your primary role and responsibility is to solve one specific problem for one specific audience.

And so it doesn’t matter if you have some crazy story, but if you’re able to solve a problem for that audience, then that’s ultimately what people are looking for and what event planners want to hire speakers for.

Pat Flynn: It’s a great transition into, okay, if we want to speak, we know we have a blog or a podcast or a platform, YouTube channel.

We have a book maybe coming out. We want to get on stages. We want to build more authority that way. We want to get into the green room with these other speakers and build relationships, but we’ve never done it before. Where do we begin? Are we building a signature talk based on a particular audience?

Then we go find those audiences that are at conferences. Or do we pinpoint a particular conference, then dissect and reverse engineer who those people are so that we can then build something for them? Where do we even begin if we are now interested in getting on the speaker circuit or even just a couple of time a yer trying to get on stage.

Grant Baldwin: So one of the things that we do inside the speaker lab is we teach this framework we call the speaker success roadmap. So it makes this acronym speak, S P E A K. And so maybe what we can do is we can just walk through real quick at a high level, kind of jump in wherever. So the S is select a problem to solve, select a problem to solve.

So Two key questions that every speaker has to answer, and this isn’t exclusive to speakers. This is true for just entrepreneurs in general. And so one is you’ve got to be clear on who are you speaking to? And number two is what problem are you solving? And the danger here is we, we tend to want to go as big and broad and wide and vague.

And so who do I speak to? I don’t know, man, I speak to people. I speak to humans. I speak to everybody, right? My message is for the world, but that just doesn’t work. The same thing is true with what problem do you solve? And it’s kind of like, well, what do you speak about? Well, I don’t know. What do you want me to speak about?

We talk about sales or marketing or leadership or family or Pokemon or on and on the list goes, even if you know something about all those things, like you don’t want to become this person that like, I speak about everything and nothing at the same time. And so we always use the analogy of like, you want to be the steakhouse and not the buffet, the steakhouse, not the buffet.

Meaning if you and I are going to dinner or let’s say we’re going afterwards, we’re going to get barbecue. Right. And so we are going to a place that we, and we literally, we asked the sound engineer here. And we said, Hey, what’s a good barbecue place? And he didn’t say Golden Corral. He didn’t say some buffet.

You know, he’s like, no, no, here’s the place you need to go. All they do is barbecue. So when we go to this place right after this, they’re probably not going to serve tacos. They’re probably not going to serve sushi. They’re probably not going to serve enchiladas.

Pat Flynn: Even mentioned one that had specifically whole pigs.

Like, yeah, there was a very specific thing about that.

Grant Baldwin: All we do is barbecue. And so if you want any of those other things, if you want good sushi, You go down the street. If you’re looking for a good steak, here’s where you go. So we always say, like, you want to be the barbecue place, you want to be the steakhouse and not the buffet.

And the mistake again, a lot of speakers and just entrepreneurs in general make is we try to just do it all. And so I help everybody with everything. And then you just become big, become golden corral and nobody’s excited about going to a buffet.

Pat Flynn: You know, I see commercials for golden corral every day.

Grant Baldwin: They’re kicking. I’m sure hypothetically. And it’s just counterintuitive because we think the more things we can speak about, the more problems we can solve, the more people we can speak to, the more opportunities we will have. And that’s ultimately like not what people are looking for.

So I’m spending an extra minute on this because it’s like the most important foundational place is you got to be clear on who you speak to and what problem you solve. The P we’ll hit these others real quick. P is prepare your talk, like be really clear on like what’s the solution that you’re providing and how are you providing that?

So are you doing keynotes or workshops or Breakouts or seminars, you’re doing one hour or full day or five day things. Are you doing in person? Are you doing virtual? Like, how are you providing the solution to the problem that you’re solving? The E is to establish yourself as the expert. So two key assets that every speaker needs is you need a website and a demo video, website and demo video.

So in this day and age, if you don’t have a website, you don’t exist. It’s hard for people to take you seriously. It’s important to have a website. And a demo video, I want you to think of this kind of like a, like a movie trailer. So recently my wife and I went to see a movie and before the movie starts, they are showing all the trailers.

And when the trailers are playing, we’re all doing the same thing. You know, we’re all going like, Oh man, I can’t wait to see that. That’s going to be awesome. That’s going to be legit. We got to go see that. Or two seconds in, you’re like, That’s stupid. No chance we’re going to see that, right? Because I don’t need to see like a 10 minute thing to determine whether or not I want to see it or I’m interested.

The goal of a movie trailer and the goal of a demo video is to make people want to see more. And so for an event planner, a decision maker, you’ve been on that side as an event planner, you are in the risk mitigation business because when you hire a speaker and you put them up on stage on this type of stage virtually or in person at one of your events, you’re taking a risk and I assume this person’s going to do a good job.

I assume that they’re not going to embarrass me, that they’re not going to say something inappropriate, that they’re not going to say something controversial, that they’re going to deliver good content and value. You’re just taking a risk. And so that demo video gives some level of confidence that like, Oh, I think this person could be a good fit for my event. So website demo video are important. The a acquired paid speaking gigs, acquired paid speaking gigs. This is the part where we want to like fast forward to like, man, dude, just tell me how to book gigs. But if you don’t have these other pieces in place first, it’s really difficult to book gigs because you don’t know who you’re speaking to, what you speak about.

You don’t have any marketing assets. And at this point, It becomes much more proactive rather than reactive. So sometimes the mistake speakers will make is going like, I got my website. I got my video. And now I just sit back and I wait for the phone to ring. I’m like, it just doesn’t work like that. Like, just because you have a website, just because you have a video, just because you have, you post something on social.

Nobody cares. Like if you build it, they will not come. And so at this point, we have to be much more proactive in identifying the types of events that we would be a good fit for starting conversations with them, reaching out, following up, and just being intentional about it. And then the last part of the process K is know when to scale, know when to scale, meaning lot of people who are interested in speaking ultimately say, I have some type of message that I want to share.

And speaking is a way, it’s not the only way to go about doing that. And so, as you alluded to, there are people who may say I’m watching, listening, and like, I want to do a hundred gigs a year. Like I want to be a full time speaker. Or other people may be like. I want to do five, you know, and it’s not that one’s better or worse.

You and I have both done to varying degrees, amounts of speaking just ultimately depends on like what you want to do and what makes sense to you. So for some people they say, Hey, I want to be a speaker, but I also want to do a course. I would love to do a podcast. I’d love to do consulting or coaching.

I’d love to do a book and speaking just a part of that. So figuring out how does speaking fit into the mix there? So again, I know we covered a lot there, but that’s kind of the high level of how to actually book gigs and how to speaking fit into my world. That’s the speaker success roadmap that we teach.

Pat Flynn: I love it. That’s a great overview.

Let’s pinpoint a few things, if you don’t mind. After you’ve established yourself as an expert, which many of our listeners already have, they have a website already, but they don’t yet have a demo video. Yeah. How might one create that if they have yet to be on stage to then create a video from? Because that’s often what we see in demo videos are people on stage, but if you’ve never been on stage, yeah.

Chicken versus egg. Chicken egg. Absolutely. Yeah. Tell me about how to solve it. Yeah.

Grant Baldwin: So there’s a couple options here that you could do. One is that you can find some type of local event to speak at for free. And so my first demo video, I spoke to a friend’s youth group at a local church and there’s 30, 40 teenagers in the room there.

I borrowed a handy cam from a friend. Friend, I set it up on, yeah, like on the side of the room there on a tripod, like way back. I edited it myself using windows movie maker. I don’t even know if that’s still a thing. The approach of just like, this is version 1.0. And so I think sometimes it’s easy to like, look at people’s demo videos who have been at this for years and years and years, and they’re like incredibly professional.

Professionally polished. And you’re just like, I don’t have that, but that’s okay. Like they didn’t either when they got started. So fast forward to today and I’ve got, I’ve had six, seven, eight different versions of demo videos. And so know that when you’re, you’re making a version and this applies to your website as well, it’s version 1.0, do it to the best of your ability, do it with excellence and improve as you go. So one option is again, you could speak at something for free. Locally, you know, that’s certainly an option. Another option. This is going to sound weird, but this can work is you could speak in an empty room. Now, if you’re going to do this, you want to do this in the type of setting where someone would actually hire you to speak.

Like nobody’s hiring you to speak in your bedroom or your kitchen or your bathroom. So like, don’t be like, here I am. And you know, like, don’t do that, but go to a theater, an auditorium, a banquet hall, a conference center, some type of setting where someone would actually hire you. And I know it sounds weird or feels kind of like hokey, but let me give an example. There’s a demo video I used for several years where it was a tight shot of me on stage speaking and just different cuts and clips of me speaking at this event. And so sometimes I’d show it to people and I said, Hey, how many people are in that room?

And all you could see the entire video is me. So you have no idea, right? You’d get all kinds of guesses, right? Well, there’s actually 3000 people in the room. Well, you just don’t know there could have been zero could have been a dozen. It could have been a million. You just have no idea. Cause all you see is me.

And so again, If you’re recording in an empty room, it feels weird, you know, cause you’re just kind of talking into the ether, but it can be effective. And that can work, especially in that chicken, egg situation where I know I don’t need this forever. I have an event coming up in six months that I know is going to be great, but I don’t want to wait six months.

Like I want to take action today. I want to start to build momentum now. And so that can be a good version 1. 0.

Pat Flynn: How long should a demo video be and what should be included in it? Is it, like, great quotes or movement? I like the idea of filming it at, like, on stage at a church in between, you know, mass or something, right?

Where you get the stage, you have that feel, you’re dressed up nicely, good first impression. But, like, what are we filming exactly and how long should it be?

Grant Baldwin: So in that context, though, you want to make sure again that you’re filming in the type of setting where you’d want someone to hire you. Okay, so a mistake sometimes speakers would make is if they are filming in a church, but they’re not trying to get booked in a church. Because remember, an event planner decision makers watching that going, would I hire them?

So another example would be there was a lady I saw who put out a video and she was trying to get booked to speak to corporations and like associations. And the demo video was her speaking to like elementary students and middle school students. And so you can see like, okay, you’re a speaker. I can tell that you’re a good speaker, but I’m watching this demo video trying to decide if I would hire you.

And there’s just a disconnect between what I’m watching and what I’m considering hiring you to do. Right. So again, that’s where it’s important to make sure that you are filming in the type of setting where an event planner, decision makers, watching that going like, I could totally see them speaking at our event and they would be really, really good.

So in terms of like the length and some details here is think about like your own attention span for video. You know, like if I were to, if that, right, so like someone’s going to, if someone sends you a video, those people are watching us for, yeah, yeah, we’re, we’re in way too deep at this point. But when someone like sends you a dude, you got to watch this video.

All right. Like the first thing we do is we scan to the corner and we see how long is this video. And if it’s more than a couple minutes, even that is just like, You don’t like me. Why did you send this to me? And, you know, I thought we were friends. And so an event planner, decision maker, they’re typically not going to be saying, Hey, I have a half an hour, 45 minutes to watch your full talk.

Right. What they’re most likely doing is they’re considering hiring you and probably three, four or five other speakers. And so they’re going to watch 30, 60 seconds, a couple minutes of multiple speakers to quickly narrow down. So it’s again, kind of like the movie trailer. I don’t need to see the entirety of 10 different movie trailers to determine which one I’m most excited about.

Probably see about 30, 45 seconds of a couple of them be like, yeah, I’ve seen enough, you know, or some that you’re like, I want to see it. Is there another trailer of this? Cause that looks really good, you know? And so in this, what you want to do is I would present, give like your, your full 30 minute, 45 minute talk and figure out like, what’s the absolute best content within that what’s the best of the best of the best.

Cause again, the goal is to make people want to see more when you’re presenting something also keep in mind that if you’re taking a, let’s say a 45, 30 minute talk, you’re boiling it down to let’s say two or three minutes, just like a movie trailer, you’re keep in mind that nobody has seen your entire 45 minute, 60 minute talk.

So you may say like, Oh, this punchline kills every single time. And so I got to include this punchline to the story or this joke in here. If there’s no setup, that’s in the video and someone’s watching, I was like, I see people laughing. I don’t get it because I wasn’t in the room that doesn’t work. So you want to make sure that all of the, the context is correct for what’s actually being included in the demo video.

Now, one of the things that you mentioned there is, should I include, you know, quotes or testimonials or B roll of me kind of prepping backstage or something like that, like some of that is okay, but at the end of the day, what someone’s hiring you for. Is to stand on stage and speak. And so sometimes I see speakers who they have this kind of hype video.

Pat Flynn: WWE intro. Yeah.

Grant Baldwin: Yeah. Like there’s all this stuff that shows all these like bells and whistles and like media appearances and you know meeting and greeting people. But there’s very little of them actually speaking. And like, that’s the thing that people are hiring you for. So you can have a little bit of the like seasoning and spices there, but like the core meat should be you speaking.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, I think we’re getting hungry. We’re talking about crockpots. Let’s go barbecue, baby. Yeah, we’re gonna have some barbecues, you know, I definitely want to make sure we cover before we finish up. How to acquire speaking gigs. There’s a number of different routes that I know about, like filling out an application, but I know it’s a lot more than that.

I mean, tell me about the validity of that for a person who’s just starting out, who literally is like zero presentations in their resume. Do they even stand a chance and what would help them stand out? But. What are the other means and ways that people can go and actually get on these stages?

Grant Baldwin: Yeah. And so again, like one of the things we touched on there is just being much more proactive than reactive.

So certainly we hear stories of people who, who are going, yeah, I just, you know, I built my website and then this led to one thing. And then all of a sudden, you know, I was on Oprah and wow, here I am. And I’ve never had to do anything. It’s like, that’s great for like the fraction of a percent that that happens to.

It’s just not the case for most people. The way that I can speak to myself personally. And what we’ve seen from a lot of speakers that we’ve worked with is the high, high majority of the gigs that I got is because I asked for them. Meaning like I found an event that was having speakers. I’m not trying to convince them to hire a speaker.

They’re already planning on hiring a speaker. I’m just showing them why I am a good fit. So in the same way, let’s go back to the example of, we’ve been talking about barbecue, right? We’re continually getting ourselves hungry here. Let’s say that the barbecue place we’re going to somehow magically they catch wind of this, they show up, they’re like, Hey, We heard you guys are looking for barbecue.

We got a place around the corner. They’re not trying to convince us that we should get barbecue. We’re already planning on having barbecue. They’re just showing like, Hey, here’s why we’re good fit. Right. And so let’s say with like your Pokemon conference, if I reach out to you and I say, Pat, we’re buddies.

And man, I had the best marketing speech that I think you were the marketing team, building customer service and leadership. I think this is perfect. You may be like, That has complete irrelevance to our audience and what it is. Right. But if I said like, and again, I know squat about Pokemon here, so play along.

But if I said, dude, I know everything about, we’re going to edit something in here, you know, fill in the blank here, some type of thing. You’d be like, oh, okay. Like this is perfect for our audience. This would be a great fit. Then again, I’m not trying to convince you about something that you. But you already know that this is true.

You know what it is that you are looking for. The other thing I would say is when you are reaching out, a mistake that sometimes speakers will make is we try to immediately go into pitch mode. Hey, I saw that you’re having this conference. Let me give you my 10 reasons why you should hire me. And here’s my resume.

And here’s my website. And here’s all my videos. Like nobody’s going to look at any of that. Right? So one of the things you want to do here. I’m And it’s like, you’re trying to start a conversation. So when I reach out, if I send an email or LinkedIn message to an event planner decision maker, I’m keeping it really short, like two or three sentences.

Hey, came across your event. I saw that you’re having card party next year in Tampa. I’m curious when you’ll start reviewing speakers for that event. That’s it. Because I’m also trying to make it really easy for you to apply to. Yeah. Because if I’m giving you some 10 paragraph thing, you’re not going to read it.

You’re not going to respond to it. But if I just say like, when are you going to review speakers? It’s real easy for you to be like October, you know, and just, it could be a one word answer. Cause at that point now is we’ve started a dialogue and I can say, Hey, do you mind if I follow up with you in October?

Cause you’re going to say, sure. Cause I don’t, yeah. You don’t think I’m going to actually do it. So when I do partly I’m kind of giving you a teaser of like, this is what it’s like to work with me. Like I’m on top of it and I’m, I’m on my game here. So you’re trying to plant a lot of different seeds there and then be intentional with the followup.

Cause another mistake speakers will make is just say like, okay, well, when October rolls around, I hope you think of me. And you’re not going to, because like life has happened between now and then. And so I want to try to stay top of mind with you by finding out when your next step is and then basing my next step on that.

Pat Flynn: That’s great. Yeah. The fortune is in the follow up for sure. How much validity is there for a speaker to go? You have room for me. I’ll talk for free. I’ll do it for free because I just want reps. Is that a valid strategy and or is that selling yourself short?

Grant Baldwin: Yeah. So I think that speaking for free can get a bad rap.

And I think ultimately like a couple things I would say is one is you’re running a business. You have to treat this like a business. But having said that it’s okay to speak for free. As long as you know why you’re doing it. Don’t just do this out of the goodness of your heart. Like, if we’re all independently wealthy and we love speaking, we might be like, yeah, I don’t need to get paid, this is just fun, right?

But again, you’re running a business, you’re providing something of value, you need to receive something of value in exchange. But that value that you receive can look a lot of different ways. So, an example would be like you said, maybe, we touched on this a little bit earlier, maybe you’re like, you’re just working on some new content and I just want to get better, you know, the way you get better as a speaker is you speak.

So, Well, you get better as a podcaster as you podcast. So I’m looking for opportunities and at bats. I know I’m not amazing, but I know I’m not awful and I’m going to provide value and do a good job to for your audience. So I may be willing to speak at something just for the reps. I may be willing to speak at something because I know the people in the room and if I can get in front of those people, maybe they’re event planners or decision makers and they may be interested in hiring me for something.

Maybe I have some type of product or service and so it’s less about what type of check I do or don’t get in that moment and more about. If I can get in front of these people and they hire me for coaching or consulting or by my course or book or program, that may be worth way more than what I may or may not be paid.

And that event, it may be worth it from a travel perspective. Like I’ll give you an example. A mutual friend of ours was invited to speak at something in Europe several years ago and they had a smaller budget and he’s like, I don’t know if this is worth it. And I said, no, let’s, let’s negotiate with them for some additional travel.

And so long story short, they paid for he and his wife to go over to somewhere in Europe and paid for several additional nights of hotel and meals and like basically covered all their travel. And he said, Hey, I, all of a sudden I got this European vacation out of it, you know? And so there was value that didn’t show up in the form of a check for him, but it still was something that was like, yeah, that was totally worth it. The provided value in a different way. Nice.

Pat Flynn: I know that in my experience, most of my talks have come as a result of relationships that were built ahead of time and also performing on those stages. And I know a lot of these event directors and decision makers, like they all talk to each other.

Yeah. How can one show up when they do get their first talk to give them the likely chance that they will get hired again, that there’ll be talked about, that they’ll be shared. It’s been the best thing to almost overperformed so much that they can’t help but, you know, recommend me to others.

How do you show up?

Grant Baldwin: Yeah, well, table stakes is you absolutely have to crush it on stage, right? And you need to, like, show up prepared. And like we talked about earlier, like, not just like, I’m going to just kind of go through the motions and scribble a couple of ideas in a napkin and wing it and hope it all works out.

But I’m really going to take the time to understand the audience and put together like a well crafted, well designed presentation and talk, whether it’s a 10 people, I’m going to do it with excellence. So that is, like, First and paramount, but the other part of it is, is this being really good to work with off stage?

And so let me give an example. Like if we have a back home here, we have a drainage issue in our backyard. So we had a landscaper come out, I don’t know, maybe six months ago or something. And we had to get a couple of quotes for it. And initially we’re trying to get quotes for it. And we called so many landscaping places and like, it was so hit and miss of people who would either, Hey, we’ll be there on Tuesday.

And just nobody would show, or we’ll be there this time. And then they’re two hours late or they’d come by and like, I’ll get you a quote next week. And you’d never hear from them. And you’d call someone just in the, Hey, can I just get someone to come out? And no one would answer your call. And it was just like, I’m trying to give you money and you, you won’t do this.

Right. All right. So eventually I find this guy, he comes out, we get a couple of quotes out and this guy, this one particular guy happened to be the priciest, but he was just the, easiest and best to work with. He did what he said he would do. I’m going to be there at this time. And then he’d come out there, give me 30 minutes in my truck here.

And I’m going to have a quote for you. And he pulls out the quote and it was just great to work with. So fast forward, since then we had another drainage issue, right? And then we’ve had apparently some irrigation leak as we still have a drainage issue fast forward, right? As I’ve worked with this guy on a couple different things.

So he calls me this morning. And super, super nice down to earth. And he said, Hey, we’re going to have to come back out there. Here’s what we’re going to do to fix it. If you’ve got your own irrigation guy, that’s fine. But if you want to work with me, I said, no, even though we’ve had some frustrations in this, I’d rather work with you because you just aren’t going to do what you say you’re going to do.

So from a speaker standpoint, part of what you got to do is be great on stage. And part of what you got to do. It’d just be really, really good to work with. So when the event planner decision maker sends you an email, don’t take three days to respond when there’s a sound check, like be early, don’t show up late when the conference is going on, like participate in the conference, be around, attend different sessions, you know, show up at the mixers and, and the meet and greets and things just like be part of the conference when your session is over.

Don’t hide away in your hotel room, like buying the event planner decision maker. Hey, my, my, my. You know, thank you so much for letting me be here. Is there anything else I can do to help or support you? Anything that you need from, from me, those little things go such a long way. And again, like I said, in the landscaping example, you know, like the product is great, even though we’ve had some hiccups with the product, but I’m going to keep going back to that guy because I just know I trust that guy.

And I know he’s going to be really, really good to work with.

Pat Flynn: Grant has been so amazing. I think it’s going to be a great first start for a lot of people who are getting into the speaking world. So thank you so much for this. Where can people go to check out the speaker lab and the things that you have going on there to help people go deeper with this?

Grant Baldwin: Yeah. So if you listen to this podcast, you probably listen to other podcasts. So we have a podcast by the same name, The Speaker Lab podcast, which again, you’ve been a guest on multiple times. We recorded right before this. So make sure you check out that episode. We talk deep. About the behind the scenes of Card Party.

And that’s pretty fascinating. So definitely check that episode out there. We’ve got a book called The Successful Speaker, five steps for booking gigs, getting paid, building your platform. And so that speak framework that we talked about, we go way more in depth in that. So definitely check that out.

And we also have a variety of resources over at TheSpeakerLab.com/spi. So TheSpeakerLab.com/spi. Check that out.

Pat Flynn: Thanks Grant. Appreciate you.

Grant Baldwin: You bet buddy.

Pat Flynn: You ready to eat?

Grant Baldwin: Let’s go. Let’s go eat.

Pat Flynn: Alright, I hope you enjoyed that interview and conversation with Grant. Grant, you can find at TheSpeakerLab.com. Family man, he’s a pilot, he is just such a good human being, and he is an inspiration to me, and I love everything he does. And so check them out, especially if you need some help speaking again, TheSpeakerLab.Com we’ll have all the links and everything over at the show notes page at SmartPassiveIncome.com/ession821. Again, SmartPassiveIncome.com/ession821. And you can hear me on his podcast, The Speaker Lab and Grant’s just a great guy. Cannot wait to meet up with them again. And we actually had a long conversation at a barbecue place right after this in person conversation and recording was a barbecue place nearby in Tennessee.

And it was amazing, but I was also amazed at what he was teaching me with regards to flying a plane and the apps that he uses and how it all works. And it’s just fascinating, Nathan Barry, I know is a pilot as well. And Nathan and Grant kind of share tips and inspiration with each other as well. So anyway, Grant, thank you so much.

Thank you for listening all the way through. I appreciate you hit up the show notes page again, one more time, smartPassiveIncome.com/ession821. And I look forward to serving you the next episode. Cheers. Take care. I love you. You’re awesome.

Thank you so much for listening to the Smart Passive Income podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I’m your host, Pat Flynn. Sound editing by Duncan Brown, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media and a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network. Catch you next week!