SPI 805: Stop Thinking like a Freelancer and Start Being an Entrepreneur and CEO with Hope Trory

SPI 805: Stop Thinking like a Freelancer, and Start Being an Entrepreneur and CEO with Hope Trory

Hope Trory: I can’t say that, when I was a freelancer, the clients I had at the time saw me as an employee or lower on the totem pole or anything like that. But that’s how it felt. Once I switched and said, “No, no, no, no, no. I have a business. I’m a business owner.” That really changes how you approach prospects, how you approach your client relationships. And it also feels okay to charge more, which is another funny psychology thing, right?

Pat Flynn: There’s a huge difference between being a freelancer, which is always a great place to start freelancing, and becoming the CEO or the leader of your business. Even if you are still small, even if you’re just yourself in your business, there’s a mindset shift that happens between freelancer and CEO. And that then determines different actions that you take. That then determines how you treat and how you accept money. That then determines the kind of clientele that you work with. And today we’re talking with somebody who has an incredible story in fact a lot of the beginnings of her story is very similar to mine because she used to be an architect and she then transitioned into something else and pivoted.

So we talk a lot about pivoting and this was not easy for her. In fact, we go through a number of different stories of her trying to figure things out and what’s going on in her head. And I think this is going to be a very relatable episode, especially if you have a service based business. You’re going to see a lot of parallels between the kinds of things that Hope Trory has done and what you could do as well to better lead yourself into a life that you would have more fulfillment with and something that you can get more behind and something that can generate a lot more revenue for you as well.

So let’s welcome Hope Trory from HopeWorksDesign.com. She’s incredible. I think you’re going to enjoy these stories very much and the lessons that come along with them. Here’s Hope

Announcer: You’re listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network, a show that’s all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, he learned how to type in 2001 thanks to AOL instant messenger, Pat Flynn.

Pat Flynn: Hope, welcome to SPI. Thank you so much for taking the time today.

Hope Trory: Thank you for having me.

Pat Flynn: I’m excited and a little giddy because maybe we might talk a little bit of architecture, cause I know you have a background in architecture, just like I did.

Where did you go to school for, for architecture? I’m curious.

Hope Trory: I went to Cornell.

Pat Flynn: To Cornell. Amazing. If you were to pick a percentage of time that you were in the studio versus like out and about doing other things, how much of your time at college was literally spent in the studio?

Hope Trory: I think you know the answer to that.

It was like 99%.

Pat Flynn: Yes, right? Oh. I So crazy. For those of you listening, us architects have a bond based on the way we were educated and all that good stuff. So from Cornell, did you go and get an architecture job kind of straight away or where did you go from there?

Hope Trory: Yeah. While still in school, I picked up a job.

I started interning at a firm in my hometown of Detroit and the idea, so I didn’t realize this until, you Years later, how plum this job was as an intern. Okay. I’m still in school. I think it was the summer after freshman year. So brand new. Okay. Just one year under my belt of school. And I get home and I’m like, oh, the summer off.

I’m going to relax. I’m going to chill. My mom’s like, so you have a job lined up, you’re gonna work in an architecture firm or something? And I’m like, Oh, no, I, I like worked so hard all semester, like for two semesters. I want to just relax. And she’s like, No, you’re going to work. I don’t care if it’s in a firm, but you’re going to have a job this summer.

So it’s like, Oh, wow. So I go around seeing if anyone’s hiring interns. At this point, it’s like June. So it was way too late, generally. Like you have to secure that before you leave college or leave campus. But a couple of places were interested. One of them even said they would pay me no free internship here.

Pat Flynn: That’s good.

Hope Trory: So I got a little something, something, and then it started working and doing normal intern type things. But the idea was that I was the baby of the firm. Okay. And they were going to raise me because they wanted, they wanted me to come back to college, work with them. And they were very supportive about licensing, supporting you through that whole procedure.

And this is before, like, it’s a bit easier these days, I think, like, it doesn’t take quite as long to get licensed. But at the time it took a long time, right? So they were very much about, we’re going to make sure you study, make sure you get all the experience you need, like everything you need. So I’m like, okay, this is great.

So for almost every semester break, so summer break, spring break, fall break, winter break, I went home and I worked. And it was great. And so after graduation, I was like, well, I know where I’m going. Go to that firm, right? So shout out to Hamilton Ameson Architects of Detroit. Awesome firm to work for. And I learned a lot and I’m very grateful to them because I got the kind of hands on experience that I wouldn’t have expected to get until I was, you know, you know, post graduation, you know, ready to be full time in the working life.

And as a student, I was doing all sorts of things. I got to do design work.

Pat Flynn: I’m so jealous of you right now because, I mean, obviously looking back, it’s like, okay, things worked out in the end. But when I graduated was the first time I got a job. And it was through a relationship that I had with a person who used to be in the marching band at Cal, and I was in the marching band, so we had that connection.

That was my way in. And I was just thrown into the deep end. Like I was so confident going in because I went to Cal and it was this prestigious school and then it’s like, okay, I have no idea what I’m doing because it wasn’t real life work that I was doing. I was learning concepts. I was learning about history and all the things that were cool.

But then here I was in the actual workforce, very lost. So that’s really cool and I think this speaks to how I feel, at least today, education should be. It should be hands on, should be mentorship, should be apprenticeship. Things like that, but it doesn’t sound like you were always at this firm from that point forward.

Tell me a little bit about the transition into entrepreneurship. When did that happen in the journey?

Hope Trory: So that happened as a result, honestly, of the great recession, a lot of projects dried up. It was a little uncertain about the future of things, how long this was going to last, how far reaching the impacts would be.

So I was one of those that were laid off. Okay. And at the time that was devastating because I was like, wait, but what am I supposed to do? Like I’ve achieved my dream. I wanted to be an architect since I was a small child, very single minded determination. Went to a top school. Now I’m at a great architecture firm.

What, what, what’s happening? So the idea though, the idea was that it was not forever. It was something that needed to happen for the firm at the time. And then when things leveled out. they would reach out to bring me back. And it’s true, and they did. By that time, though, I had moved to New York City. But, but because I, while I understood why I was in the situation I was in, I still needed to pay bills.

And, the thing is I had this hobby this entire time, and that was basically building, designing websites, basically creating marketing campaigns as well. Although at the time, that’s not how I would have described it. But while I was still in the school, I took a few electives. I think it was called like digital imaging or something like that.

But anyway, you learn all sorts of cool things. You learn to code, you learn to use like really cool Photoshop stuff. You mess about with audio. You learn all these digital tech things. And then I took a few marketing courses as well, just because I was interested. I didn’t actually think I’d be using this information in my career, at least not that point.

But I realized that all of the people that knew I did this stuff and would ask me for help, like, oh, can you build my company’s website? I’m like launching something new. Can you build my website? Can you, like, I have a website, but it doesn’t seem to be getting, you know, Like doing anything is just there on the internet.

How do I get people to come to it? So that never led up recession or no. And I realized, Oh, maybe I shouldn’t monetize this because until I figure out what’s going on with architecture, I need resources. I need income. And people, recession or not, seem to be very interested in this sort of service. So I was like, okay, well, I’m going to start charging.

I was doing this for free. It was a hobby. I didn’t take it seriously. So I started charging and built up experience and started taking some more courses so I could learn more myself, move to New York City and After a while, I had to make the decision, is this my path forward or am I going back to architecture?

Pat Flynn: Yeah. I’m curious when you got that call from your old firm and they were like, Hey, like we want you back and you’re in New York, you’ve started this run at web design and helping you’re getting clients. How did you make that decision?

Hope Trory: That was tough. Very, very tough. It took a while. It wasn’t a snap decision.

I love the fact that they gave me time. I wouldn’t say they were just waiting on me exactly, but I had the time to kind of feel it out. And one thing that helped make that decision was my mom. I was talking with my mom about it and, you know, being of two minds, I’m like, well, I always wanted to be an architect.

Like I always assumed I was going back that this whole marketing thing was temporary. So I should, and she’d go back. And my mom, for one, she said, well, do you really love what you’re doing right now? Like, she’s like, I know you love architecture. I know that’s been your lifelong dream, but do you love what you’re doing now?

And I was like, well, yeah, it’s really fun. It’s really exciting. I do like, I love waking up and doing what I do every day. And so she’s like, okay. And she was like, well, when you were working as an architect, how about that? And I was like, Yeah, that’s my passion. Like, of course. Then she brought me back to a time when I was in school and I called home because I was just upset.

And I had forgotten that this conversation happened completely, but she remembered. And she said, remember in third year and Cornell is a five year program. We have an extra year. So my third year, she says, I called home and I was questioning if I wanted to stay in architecture or explore other opportunities.

And I was like, really, I don’t remember this. And she was like, yeah, she was like, because, you know, it was a tough year for you for other reasons than school, but it was a tough year. And you called and we talked about this a couple of times. And I said, you know, you, my mom said to me, you know, I will always support what you do.

So it’s up to you, like what feels good to you. And I was like, well, at the time that was staying in architecture. And when I thought about that, I was like, oh. I guess I wasn’t always so single minded. I had moments of wondering about other opportunities and trying other things. And eventually, like this is over a period of months, but eventually I went to Central Park, I had a little spot that I like to go to that was generally pretty quiet, especially in the mornings. And I just sat down and I was like, okay, I’m going to pray on it. And I’m going to make the decision today. Just so I can be at peace and I did that in the morning the entire day, I just kind of went about my day and in the evening, I went home to my apartment and opened up my laptop, opened up Gmail and drafted an email saying that I really appreciate the opportunity. And I’m so glad that you thought of me and that you reached out, but I’m going to continue what I’m doing out here in New York, and I almost didn’t send it, but I sent it. And the response was interesting because they were like, well, is it just because it’s New York City? I mean, I know it’s not Detroit.

Pat Flynn: They really wanted you.

you know, a lot of people, myself included, when they go through a situation like this, oftentimes there’s a person who’s like, Hey, you shouldn’t go down that route, right?

Like, what are you doing? This is the wrong decision. And, you know, it’s so great that your mom was there to help support you no matter what your decision was. So you didn’t have that sort of from a family member, but from this company, you have this almost sunk costs. It’s like you’ve invested and they’ve invested in you all this time and energy and money.

For many other people, it’s, it’s like, you know, my parents paid my way through college to be an architect and go down that route. So I remember what that decision was like for me and how much that weighed so heavily on me, even after the decision, was there any sense of like you might disappoint this company or that you were going behind their backs because they, you know, supported you all this time and now you’re going this way.

Like, how did you make the decision for you? Obviously you’ve made, you made the right decision, but that’s such a difficult one to go through.

Hope Trory: It really is. Yeah. I mean, I did have feelings of guilt because well, because of all of the investment of myself, like my time, my energy, money, my family’s money, the student loans I took out, like lots of investment.

Yes. And I also felt guilty for my firm for investing in me as well. And clearly following up, like those words of we want you back, that was not lip service at the time, like they were true to that and really did want me back. When I, when I went to Central Park to kind of just to get it, get it done, like make a final decision, one of the ways I knew my decision was the right one was that I felt peace.

So there was still fear because I mean, like, this was not the plan. Like, I’m going very much off my plan of becoming not necessarily an entrepreneur. Because if I stayed in architecture, the idea was eventually I would have my own firm, you know, that whole thing. But the plan was to stay in architecture.

So I’m doing something completely different, completely uncharted for me. But when I made that decision, I felt at peace. And as much as I did still feel a bit of guilt for investing all this time and energy and money into something else, this all didn’t happen on the same day, but I came to the realization that ultimately, what my life purpose is, is not tied to my, or my profession.

So it took, I had to go all the way back to why I wanted to become an architect in the first place. And it wasn’t simply to do good design work. I mean, yes, of course, but it’s because I wanted to save the world. So I saw architecture and design as tools to uplift society, to make. our environment a better place.

So a healthier place, a more sustainable place. So better for people and planet. And that was something that was core because when I was a child, I noticed things all the time. So I noticed like this mile of old used tires. It was like this giant mountain of just old used tires. And I was always wondering what happened, like, what were they there for?

But what happened to them going to a landfill was not cool. Even as a child, I was like, that’s not good. And then when I would see buildings that were I mean, I guess they’re structurally sound, but like, they weren’t serving their purpose well, though, whether it was a home or a business or office. And to me, it was like, well, we could fix this just by moving things around.

Like the design of the space can really improve how people feel in this space. And I knew that very intimately because I had as I, as a child, I would collect, I have a little taking snapshots or like Polaroids of just specific moments in time. I would do that with the places that I inhabited at the time.

So there was one of my favorite buildings in Detroit is the main library. It’s a beautiful, beautiful Beaux Arts building. Absolutely gorgeous. And I’m more of a modern contemporary style, but I give credit where it’s due. That’s a beautiful, beautiful building. And one of my favorite spaces in that building is not a real, it’s a temporary space, a transitional space, but it’s absolutely gorgeous.

It’s beautiful, like marble staircase that goes around and like this domed inside and like the artwork on the wall. I love just going and sitting and standing in that space because I felt good. It made me feel really good. And I was like, I want to do this for other people. I want to design buildings that, that create this feeling for other people. And so when I set my mind to architecture, that was my goal. It was to have a positive impact generally, like make things better through design. What my purpose is, it hasn’t changed. It’s still, my purpose is still the same. I’m in marketing, but I choose to work with people that have the same purpose.

Or a similar purpose. So if the purpose of your business is to make this world a better place and all the various ways you can do that, then I want to help that I want to help you in that endeavor, because I feel that as a single person, and even if I stayed in architecture and worked at a firm, had my own firm, a single firm, there’s a limit to your impact, but if I’m helping multiple businesses, then that’s exponential impact.

So once I realized that was like, Oh, well, sure. It still hurts a little bit to say goodbye and to practicing as an architect. But ultimately, I’m still doing the same thing. I’m still after the same result. And that’s what made me feel good about my decision to stay in marketing and see it through.

Pat Flynn: I think that’s an amazing perspective.

And this idea of the fact that through marketing, through web design and such, you actually can amplify the message even more through other people by helping them. I mean, specifically your current role is, and what you do as an entrepreneur is you help what we call AECs or architectural engineering and construction firms.

So you’re still doing the same thing and you just have a very unique talent that helps and supports those who don’t have that talent because they didn’t take those electives because they didn’t study further on those things, but there are so needed.

So what were your first steps when you decided that? Did you always know that it was going to be the sort of AEC niche inside of the marketing arena? And then kind of how did you get clients? I mean, that decision is one thing and it’s very important, but many people make the decision and don’t see any results.

How did you start to see results? What were your first steps from there?

Hope Trory: I actually did not niche down to AEC at first. It was just any small business. You just need to be a small business. But then I realized that that wasn’t serving me. And I had a marketing mentor at the time who said, well, why don’t you niche down?

She said, you know, small businesses isn’t really a niche. There’s millions. So that’s a little too broad. And when I was thinking about, okay, who can I best serve? And it kept coming back around to architecture. And I was like, you know. Architects don’t really learn marketing business basics at all. So there’s clearly a gap here that I can fill.

And so I made the decision based on that. And then I started networking at first. So this was maybe 2010, 2011. I wasn’t in the mindset of a business owner at the time. I considered myself a freelancer and that’s a mindset shift. So I was a freelancer for a while and basically I would show up at networking events.

I would talk to friends that were still in architecture and I got a few of my first clients that way. And then just from there and then from my own marketing activities, like this is also around the time where Twitter was amazing for me, at least because at the time it felt like it broke down barriers between people that were like in the ivory towers.

And so it was really easy to jump into conversations or to start conversations with people that are like. almost like exalted these days and have them respond to you. It was amazing. I loved it at the time, but that was a key source because there’s a very active architect community on Twitter. So just showing up and participating in the conversations and answering questions that gave me a lot of really good leads and some of those leads became clients.

And then I also continued freelancing or calling myself a freelancer. And then I eventually had that mindset shift to see myself as a business owner, not a freelancer. And that shift really helped me because it completely changed my marketing game. And I went in on social media. because of the accessibility and the connections that I already have made.

And then I would pop up here and there at different in person networking events. I can’t really say at the time the networking events were super helpful because as an introvert, I really needed a lot of practice to talk to people, but I showed up, I was there. And then as I got more work, that work became referrals.

So those past clients were for me to other people. And then I started getting traction with my website and honestly, like it was a shift. Around 2015, 2016 or so, where I was still getting leads from social and obviously still getting referrals regularly, but I started getting a lot of great leads from search.

Pat Flynn: Inbound this time. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Can you tell me the difference between your freelancer mindset and your business owner mindset? What does that mean exactly? And what actions are different for somebody who’s a freelancer versus a business owner?

Hope Trory: Well, for me, a freelancer positions themselves similarly to an employee.

Like you don’t have an employer per se, like you, you, you don’t, you’re not a W2 employer or employee, sorry, but your mindset is similar to someone that is a W2 employee. And so when you are seeking out work, at least this is how it was for me, I saw myself as almost as an employee to my client, like they’re my clients, but I saw them as it’s weird because they weren’t the boss exactly, but there was a hierarchy there where they were higher.

Pat Flynn: They’re still telling you what to do.

Hope Trory: Yeah, they’re the top of the chain. And while I bring my expertise, we’re not equal when I changed my mindset to nope, you’re a business owner. You founded a company that helped me switch up that hierarchy. So we’re on equal levels. Like my clients, my client, I’m the expert.

They’re coming to me for my expertise and they’re not the boss. They’re not telling me what to do and actual fact, they want me to tell them what to do. Cause that’s what they’re paying me for.

Pat Flynn: Are you able to charge more as a business owner versus freelancer?

Hope Trory: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Because you, and this is the thing, a lot of this is in your head.

I can’t say that When I was a freelancer, the clients I had at the time saw me as an employee or lower on the totem pole or anything like that, but that’s how it felt. And the thing is, how you see yourself, how you feel about a situation gets reflected in your actions and how you show up. So I was showing up as an employee with my freelancer mindset.

Once I switched and said, no, no, no, no, no. I have a business. I’m a business owner. I’ve founded a company. That really changes how you approach prospects, how you approach your client relationships. And it also feels okay to charge more, which is another funny, like psychology thing, right? It’s like, as a freelancer, it’s like, Oh, I really want to raise my rates.

And even though it makes sense financially to do so, you work out the numbers. For me, freelancer also means hourly mentality. That’s not necessarily true for me as a freelancer. I had an hourly mentality. As a business owner, it’s not hourly anymore. And I know there’s a lot of freelancers out there that do not work on an hourly basis.

So I’m not saying it across the board, but for me, that was part of the mindset change.

Pat Flynn: I’m sure the conversations change when you are with prospects, just from that mindset shift and just the perceived value of what you have to offer, right? Instead of just, Hey, let me be a gear in your cog or in your machine versus, Hey, this is this missing piece that is not even a part of your machine.

It’s something new that’s coming in. That’s going to help you get. To the results that you want. So tell me about your business now. What does it look like? Is it just you still doing the thing or do you have a team? How’s that looking?

Hope Trory: Yeah, it’s still me. I have assistants, but it’s mostly me. And the idea is that within the next few years, I’ll build out a small team.

I don’t really see it growing to a large team, but you never know in five years, I might change my mind. But for right now, I, I would love to have a small team.

Pat Flynn: So that’s your choice, not you don’t see it growing because you couldn’t get there. It’s just you, you are making that choice to stay lean, to stay small.

What’s your decision on that?

Hope Trory: Part of it is because I like being hands on. So there’s a level like, so with my assistants who they help with a lot of the day to day stuff that I, it’s not even necessarily that I don’t want to do it. A lot of it is, but it’s not that I don’t want to do it. It’s just what makes the most sense for my time.

And if I look at it from a numbers perspective, it doesn’t make sense for me to do some of that work. So I hired someone else to take care of it. And then for building out a team, I would see them as being more than assistant. So there, so it’s not a team of assistants, but you know, it could be a coach. It could be maybe an ads expert.

I don’t know, something like that. So they’re bringing their own expertise to my company. And I like the idea of keeping the team small because I feel that there’s a really exciting energy that comes with small teams, at least in my experience that I would like to developed for my own company.

Pat Flynn: But I hope if you hire 30 people to do more of what you’re doing and you have an office and you could make a million, 10 million, you can have a 20 million company.

Why, why not go down that route?

Hope Trory: Not very attractive. I don’t, it’s not, it’s not really about the money.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. And I say that. You know, as an example, not, I’m not saying that that’s what you should do. I love that you’ve made the decision. I just want to use this as an example for everybody listening that you don’t have to grow.

When you know why you want to do something, every decision becomes so much easier and you don’t have FOMO anymore, which is the big struggle that we entrepreneurs often have. So I just thank you for being that example.

Hope Trory: No problem. I mean, there’s other ways to grow as well. Like you, it depends on your systems.

And how much you lean into automation, but you can grow your client base while keeping your team really lean because you’re leaning on machines to help.

Pat Flynn: Do you have an example of that?

Hope Trory: Okay. So for one example, I have recently like, well, recent six months ago, yeah, six months ago, I gave my main assistant a little bit more strategic work to do because I realized that by setting up automations, a lot of her day to day work like manual work could be done by an automation sequence, a very complicated one, but an automation sequence. And so with tools that you have these days that are available to you at an affordable price. Really makes sense to lean on them because they can take so much off your plate and it just happens like clockwork, like something happens.

That’s a trigger. And that just, it’s like a little cascade. Everything else in the path happens because of that, my main assistant can do work that is a bit more impactful, so she does a little bit more content creation work. I’m actually training her on some really basic, like, website development stuff that she can do.

She wouldn’t be able to do that if she was doing manual, like, copy paste or, like, checking different things. It’s on different like browsers and all of that stuff. So you automate the whole process and the machine’s taking care of it. And now she can focus on something else that has a bigger impact on helping me.

It’s, it’s great. Even things like it could be something really small. That could be a huge help. Something as simple as when you have a booking calendar, and that’s really common these days, right? Just about everyone has 1. However, if you think about it, you have your booking calendar. Someone wants time on your calendar.

You just send them the link to your calendar and they can figure it out from there. Whereas before you would need to like, Okay. Go back and forth on email or phone or something to like pin down a date and a time. Or if someone books on time on your calendar and you have automated emails to prepare them for the call and to answer any questions that they may have based on similar questions you’ve gotten in the past.

And if they need to reschedule, they don’t even need to reach out. They can just go click a reschedule link and say, actually, I need to change the time and day. And you are just going about your day while all of this happens instead of it being a person needing to manage all of that. And that’s just a really small example.

And it’s a really common one that I think people probably don’t notice so much anymore, but it could be something small like that. It doesn’t have to be a major component of the backend of your business that can do a lot To bring more ease into your day.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. Love that. As we wrap up here, Hope, this has been incredible and I’m sure very inspiring, especially for those who are just getting started or some of the mistakes that you made that maybe you wish you knew about ahead of time as you started your entrepreneurial journey, especially back in that time where you made that decision to become a entrepreneur and your own, well, at first freelancer, but then a small business owner, one or two things that you can remember from your past, maybe a story, even if you have one.

Hope Trory: Yeah, I would say one thing would be to seek out a community of similar people.

Not necessarily like hobby wise, but if someone is also starting a business, hang out with them, learn the ropes together. That was key. I did have a mentor at the time, which was super helpful.

Pat Flynn: Where did you find your mentor? Your first one?

Hope Trory: I think it was just online, like Google search.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. Oh, wow.

Hope Trory: Really good SEO.

Let me. But yeah. Oh, that was so long ago, but yeah, but she’s actually the marketing mentor and she’s great, but. In addition to your mentors, to the people that are slightly ahead of you in the game, really build a community of the people that are at your level or slightly above, because that really decreases the loneliness.

The one thing, even as a freelancer, I had many instances of feeling like I was doing everything alone, which was tough. And I make it a point to stay in community so that while, you know, this is my business and it’s just me right now. I don’t feel alone. I have a community of other business owners at similar levels.

Pat Flynn: And we are, even as an introvert, you do this.

Hope Trory: Even, yeah, especially as an introvert, you need to, you need to.

Pat Flynn: That’s great. What communities are you a part of now?

Hope Trory: Well, one is SPI Pro. So I am, and I highly recommend it. And I’m also a part of a community called Silver Lightings. So they’re great. I do a lot of talks with their community and awesome.

But yeah, I, I love them. And obviously you have like the social and things like that. I’ve been less on social these days, but you can find community anywhere. You just need to actually look for it and, and keep looking for it until you find the right fit.

Pat Flynn: So good

Hope Trory: hope.

Pat Flynn: Where can people go to check out your work?

I mean, I know not everybody here might be an AEC or have an AEC company, but perhaps they might know somebody and would love to refer them to you. Where can they go to check out your work?

Hope Trory: Sure. Yeah. My website is HopeWorksDesign.com. And while you may not be within the AEC world, if you are a service based business, I can help you and I have lots of lovely goodies on my site that you can take part of.

Pat Flynn: Ah, you’re amazing Hope. Thank you so much for this. This was incredible. You’re such a great storyteller. I think it’s no surprise why. Even though you had pivoted you’re successful looking back at that moment when you were in Central Park if you could like somehow time travel to that time and see yourself in the park alone while you were thinking what would be the one thing you would say to yourself about the future to help encourage you to make that right decision?

Hope Trory: I know exactly what I would say. I will put my hand on my shoulder and I would say it’s okay Do what you know you want to do.

Pat Flynn: Nice. Thank you, Hope. I appreciate you.

Hope Trory: Thank you, Pat.

Pat Flynn: Alright, I hope you enjoyed that interview and conversation with Hope Trory. This has been such a fun, fun conversation.

Especially to, through Hope’s stories, almost kind of relive my own. And I love how she had been working with this other company that has helped her. And now she’s helping them. And there’s so many great things about this. And I think if there’s one thing to pull away from this, it’s definitely that mindset shift between freelancer and CEO.

And even if you on paper, call yourself a CEO, are you actually treating your business in the work that you do? Like a CEO or like a leader in your business versus the sort of W2 mentality that comes with being a freelancer. A lot of things unlock for yourself when you make that shift. So I recommend you think maybe you might need to go on a walk and think to yourself a little bit and then make those decisions to make that happen.

And definitely check out Hope over at HopeWorksDesign.com again, even if you’re not an AEC firm or anything like that. But if you’ve got a small to midsize business, especially a service based one, she can help you out. HopeWorksDesign.com Thank you, Hope. I appreciate you. I’m sure everybody else here was super grateful to hear your story today and we’ll want to connect with you too.

So cheers. Thank you everybody for listening in. I appreciate you and look forward to serving you in the next episode. Cheers.

Thank you so much for listening to the Smart Passive Income podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I’m your host, Pat Flynn. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. Our senior producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media, and a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network. Catch you next week!