SPI 491: Work-Life Balance & the 18 Summers You Have with Your Kids (a Chat with Jim Sheils)

SPI 491: Work Life Balance & The 18 Summers You Have with Your Kids (a Chat with Jim Sheils)

Pat Flynn:
So I think it was 2015, 2016, I had just gone to a conference and finished speaking. For anybody who knows me, I take speaking very seriously. I treat it like a performance, and as such I rehearse quite a bit. I practice a lot. And so it’s pretty draining when I go to a conference and I speak. But after I speak it feels so good because I’m just so happy that it’s over. Not because I didn’t enjoy it, but because now I can just relax, right? One thing I like to do is with anybody I know who might be at that conference who I want to hang out with or any of my audience might be there, the night after my talk, I just want to go and get a drink at the bar and just hang out and just chill and chat. What’s really cool is because I’m done, I can just relax and really get interested in what other people are doing and just hang out a little bit.

I think it was in 2016, I was with a bunch of people and I’m not going to mention any names because there was one person in particular who I really looked up to, very smart business owner, had this very successful blog, still does, and multi-millions of dollars and employees and I was working my way toward that point of starting to build a team and whatnot. So I looked up to this person quite a bit. After a bunch of conversation, we started talking about life at home, family life. I had a lot to say. A few other people had a lot to say, but I noticed that this person who was very, very vocal when it came to business stuff and success in his business, kind of like laid back and just sipped on his drink when we were talking about family stuff.

Hours into the night, a bunch of people left to go back up to the hotel room. Some of those people still had to speak or had to go home early. I was with this gentleman, the one who was quiet during the family talk, and he and I just started chatting. I basically just wondered, I said, “Hey, I noticed that you got quiet when we were starting to talk about family. How are you doing at home? Is everything okay?” He was like, “Pat, I appreciate that. Things aren’t going well.” I said, “Well, what’s going on? I mean, we don’t have to talk about it if you don’t want to.” He’s like, “No, it’s fine. It’s my business and it’s just taken over my life. It’s going extremely well. I see my assistant every single day, but I don’t see my kids every single day. I have emails coming in from people all over around the world, people praising the work that I do, yet my wife hasn’t told me anything positive and we haven’t had intimate relationships in a very long time.” So it’s just like, wow.

It really got me thinking. I mean, I’m very grateful that I’ve always been aware and conscious of how family and business play with each other. I don’t always get it right, but I always try to get better. I think this person had gotten to the point of no return with his business, where he’s also gotten to the point of no return with his life at home.
Last year, I heard about this idea of this thing called 18 summers. Meaning, when you have a kid, you basically only have 18 summers with them, 18 because at the age of 18, after they graduate high school, they might be out, right? There are kids who stay with their parents a little longer, but 18 summers really puts into perspective. That makes it seem not like much at all.

I actually recently heard this term once again from a good friend, Stu McLaren, who was on the show recently, and it made me want to reach out to Jim Sheils. He is the person who actually had come up with, or I don’t know if he came up with it, but he coined it. He has this business at 18Summers.com, which helps people like us, busy entrepreneurs, people who have squirrel syndrome, who go from one idea to the next, those who are very, very much always on with the business, stay also just as focused on their family life at home too. And so, that’s at 18Summers.com. I invited Jim on the show today to talk deep about some of the things that we can do in this idea of something called the family board meeting, something that I want you to play close attention to, because this could absolutely be life-changing. And I think, based on this conversation that Jim and I had together, this conversation is life-changing for me, too.

Announcer:
Welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, where it’s all about working hard now so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now, your host – he’s an adult fan of Lego and isn’t afraid to admit it – Pat Flynn!

Pat:
And hey, this is a quick reminder that there is no Follow-Up Friday episode this coming Friday or what would normally be a couple days after this episode, the reason being — and if you didn’t catch the message before that’s okay — we’re taking a little bit of a summer break from it. I am making some time for family and some important things. You know, we’ve been itching to get outside, we’re both vaccinated now, kids are close to finishing up school. We’ve got some plans, so just wanted to make sure I provide some space for that, I hope you’re doing the same for you and whatever is important for you and what’s exciting for you coming up. But thank you for understanding. We’re not going away forever, don’t worry. Thank you so much for that positive feedback about those Follow-Up Friday episodes.

Promise I’m going to come back and we’re going to come back strong, but we’re just going to take this time to take a break and also collect some feedback and make it even better when we do. So we’ll let you know when that happens but I’m just so grateful for you and I look forward to serving you in the next episode. The Wednesday episodes are still around, so you can be looking forward to that next week and if there’s already one in the archive that you can go to next, go ahead and do that. Thank you so much, I appreciate you.

What’s up, everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to session 491 of the Smart Passive Income Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. Like I said, I’m really excited to go deep into life at home and balancing life and business and what that really means. I do not want to end up like my friend, and I’m still friends with him. He’s been working on his relationship with his family. But yeah, it has been kind of too late because his kids got a little old too fast for his eyes because he was so into the business day to day for himself.

Yes, it’s hard because we go, “You know what, but I’m doing the business to support the family.” But if you’re not there physically and mentally to support the family as well, that’s where it gets a little difficult, right? We have some decisions to make, and there’s some small, but very important things that you can do, things that actually don’t take a lot of time, but the benefits, wow, there are so many. We’re going to talk about that. We’re going to get deep into it. I ask a lot of questions to learn more. So sit back, relax, here’s Jim Sheils. You can look up The Family Board Meeting on Amazon, that is a book, in fact, and his business, 18Summers.com. Here he is.

Jim, welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast. Thanks for joining us today.

Jim Sheils:
Great to be here, Pat. Thanks for having me.

Pat:
Of course. We were introduced through a mutual friend of ours, Hal Elrod, who’s been a two or three time guest here on the show before, somebody who’s definitely inspired me. I’ve gotten into your stuff now, and wow, just wow. I knew I had to have you come on the show today to talk more about the things that you’re teaching. When people ask you, Jim, what is it that you do, how do you answer that question?

Jim:
Yeah. I try to help entrepreneur families not lose their family life while they’re building their businesses. That’s what we do in a nutshell with our 18 Summers family education company.

Pat:
18 summers, I keep hearing about this 18 summers. I know what it is. Can you share with the audience because this is probably going to set the framework for all the things we’re going to talk about today? What does 18 summers mean?

Jim:
Yes. Pat, 18 summers is the best math equation that’s ever come to me. It was a mentor of mine that said, “Hey, just remember, as you’re doing these family things, you only have 18 summers.” Because there’s actually studies that show 85 percent of the time the average person will ever spend with their child comes at the end of their 18th summer. So, that just shows that your ability to connect with them, it starts to go when they’re adults. So not all the years are created equal, so you want to make the most of that time. I know you have a son and a daughter and they’re starting to grow in age. And when you think about it, you’re like, “Oh, I have lots of time with them.”

But even if they’re five years old and you take that math equation, you go, “Only 13 summers left?” It puts then a positive motivation under you. And that’s what it’s all about, is positive motivation and realizing the years are not all created equal. There’s been a bad myth out there for us entrepreneurs, “Put your head down and work hard for the next five or 10 years and your family will understand.” I think that’s terrible advice. As you grow your business, your family has got to come with you.

Pat:
Yeah. Where do you think that comes from? Because I know that’s the excuse even I once made. Now is the time to work, right? We talk about it. Okay, we’re putting in the work now so we can reap the benefits later, but then later might be too late. So where does this idea come from? Is it hustle culture? Where is this even stemming from? Shouldn’t family be the most important thing? But then, we don’t make it that.

Jim:
Yeah, it’s funny. I don’t know, Pat. I think it was like a badge of honor to say, “I worked this many hours this week. I sacrificed all that.” There is some honor and respect in that, but I think it has almost been a point where entrepreneurs think, “If I admit I spent so much time with my family, then I’m not really doing what I’m supposed to do.” I have the opposite opinion. I say, if you’re building your business the right way, you should be spending real good quality time with your family without guilt all along the way.

Pat:
Yeah. It sounds easier than it is though.

Jim:
Sure.

Pat:
We know this. How does one balance building a business while still trying to remain there as a father or a mother?

Jim:
Yeah. I mean, that’s a great question. The thing I’m seeing, Pat, people want to learn how to have a great podcast, they go right to you. You know how to teach them how to do that. There’s lots of great information out there for us real estate investors, for marketers, but I’ve found for the entrepreneur, there was very little to turn to to learn how to keep an effective family life. So that’s what we did with 18 Summers. So, what I found that the number one way that I have found to keep family life strong and growing is to tie to some really simple principles and put some really strong, dependable rhythms into your life, and that can get you 80 percent of the way there.

Pat:
So let’s talk about some of these things. Obviously, everybody can go and should check out the book, The Family Board Meeting. I do want to talk about this actual thing called the board meeting within the family, because board meeting comes from the CEO business space and we’re bringing that into our personal lives now. But you talk about rhythm. You talk about some principles. What are one or two of these that we should all be paying attention to?

Jim:
Yeah. We’re going to talk about rhythms today, I’m sure. So a couple of rhythms, like tonight, last night, I’m sorry, was date night. Every Wednesday night, 5:30 to 8:30 is date night with my wife. You can’t get me, I’m not available, and I really keep that sacred. That’s our time to connect, that every Wednesday date night. It’s amazing, I go to events and they say, “Oh, I’m having some marriage issues.” And I say, “When’s the last time you went on a date?” “Oh, I don’t know, eight, nine months ago.” It’s funny. We’ll brag about we have these meetings in our business and I say, “Well, when is your meeting with your wife every week?” and they don’t have the answer. So that’s one.

Another one is I have just found quality time with my children has to be scheduled. In my book, I talk about this simple thing, the family board meeting, where I’m trying to make sure my children stay on the forefront of my life, my attention. I’m ADD, I’m an entrepreneur so I can get hyper-focused, but that’s my other rhythm. Again, when people hear rhythms, Pat, they might get overwhelmed and say, “Oh god, I’m going to have to put together 25, 30 rhythms.” I’m talking about maybe three or four that hold my family life together for the most part.

Pat:
It’s so interesting because when we start talking about putting date night on the calendar, putting time with your kids on the calendar, it almost in a way… I know the initial reaction often is, “Wow, you must be not so disciplined enough. You can’t even just put your kids in your regular day. You have to put it on a calendar? That’s almost like losing, if you will, because you can’t even manage it on your own.” But I know the opposite to be true. I have to do this, because like you said, we’re all ADD entrepreneurs. If it’s not in the calendar, it doesn’t actually get done and that those lines get blurred very, very easily. So, use the calendar. Date night, I think is very, very important. I think that perspective and that question, I want you all listening right now to ask yourself, when was the last time you had a meeting with your partner? If that is not taken care of as much as your business is taken care of, well, then what really is more important to you?

We got to actually just bring some perspective there, and that might actually make a few people listening feel it in their gut right now like, “Ooh, that’s not good.” So how do we start to change things? Because this is a partnership, right? Especially for those who are working closely with a spouse to become a good parent and make things work. How do we bring our other half into this conversation? I would imagine that, “Hey, we should have a meeting every single week” might sound a little bit off-putting in many cases.

Jim:
Sure, sure. Well, first of all, getting back to what you said, that which we schedule gets done. I mean, could you imagine if you had three main clients in your business and you never scheduled time to talk to them? It just wouldn’t make sense. You would say, “Well, that’s irresponsible.” So I see my family as my biggest investors, clients, key team members in my business, so I want to put them at the forefront. That might seem impersonable, but it’s really not, because again, that which we schedule gets done. I have found that people go, “Oh, I put date night on the calendar the same night every week at the same time, it’s going to get boring. It’s not going to be exciting.” I found the opposite. I don’t like to mess things up, Pat, and I will mess things up. Because again, ADD entrepreneur, probably like a lot of people listening, but that brain clicks every night and go, “Oh, it’s Wednesday, 5:30 to 8:30.” It’s hard for me to mess up.

So the first thing I do with the spouse, especially, is saying, “Hey, I love family. We have four kids.” You have two kids. We love being with our family, but you got to separate the parts to strengthen the whole, especially with the marriage. That re-grounding of one day a week where you plan it, you go out, both your phones are off and we’ll talk about some of those principles, should be an easy buy-in. I mean, most spouses would love to know from us busy entrepreneurs that every week, there’s one time that’s just carved up for us to have the deeper conversation, to not talk about the weather, how did the kids get to school today, who was cleaning the backyard, none of that, but the deeper things. We can talk about some ways to get deeper on that, but the first thing is just to explain, let’s set something in stone and stick with it.

Pat:
It’s so funny, because my wife and I had done date night for years until the pandemic. Now, we’re stuck at home and hopefully we’re going to get out of this soon. So we haven’t gone on date night in a while. I felt like definitely there’s been something missing because it’s definitely been a part of our schedule. It’s every Thursday for us. Kids go to grandma’s and then we get some time alone. Interestingly enough though, most of our conversation happens to be about the kids, and that’s good and bad. How do you, during date night, actually tap out of work and kids so that you can both be together fully?

Jim:
It’s a great question, Pat. My wife and I went through the same thing. A few years ago, we had date night down. We were following it, but you get trapped into that surface stuff. So what we started to do is we started a tradition called… We don’t call it date night now, we call it date night with a question. So we started to go before we would go on the date — we’d go online and look at different lists, and then we started to compile. We would go on the date with one or two deeper questions, not “What is your favorite color?” or “What was the temperature today?” It’d be like, “Name the time that you finally figured you were in love with me.” Or it might be something, “Name the best three vacations we’ve ever gone on together. Name a time that you were really going through a hard time and you felt like I wasn’t there for you.”

We’re talking some deep questions. If you go on a date, we actually made these date cards. It’s called Date Night with a Question. So we made a 52-card pack. So it’s one question a week for that date and a lot of our 18 Summers people use them. But it’s an easy thing to put in your purse for your wife. When you go on this thing and you pull out one question, just asking one question below the surface, Pat, will bring you below the surface. It’ll open up all new conversations. So that is what I always recommend, go on a date with one question. Imagine for the next year, if you go on a date once a week with your wife or your husband, and all of a sudden you’ve asked one deep question you didn’t know the answer to, how much better are you going to know them at the end of the year? How much closer are you going to feel?

The answers I’ve gotten on questions from, “Who was your most inspirational teacher as a kid and why? What was it like growing up as a child in your home and what would be the top three words that you’d describe it?” I mean, we’re talking really get to know, because I don’t ever want to stop dating my wife, Pat. I really love her, but she’s my friend too, and I just want to keep getting to know her. And that one question is a great way to do it.

Pat:
How old are your kids, Jim?

Jim:
Yeah. Kids range from four to 17. So we have quite the range. How old are your kids again?

Pat:
My kids are eight and 11.

Jim:
Okay.

Pat:
I’m curious because this check-in with your wife every week, the date night, obviously very important and a rhythm that you have. Do you have something similar with the individual children that you have? I’ve seen some families actually have date nights with the kids and just one kid. One will watch the others and then you and your daughter, for example, could go out and have a dinner together and have your own version of a date night. Is that something that you recommend as well?

Jim:
Well, that’s what The Family Board Meeting is all about. So, if you read my book… Let me just tell you the quick story. So my wife and I were brought together many years ago, fell in love instantly and he was a single mom with full custody of two beautiful little boys. We hit it off instantly. Long story short, I ended up adopting the boys, fell in love, it was great. But here I was running a big business, wanted to stay in touch with them. They had gone through some tough times that weren’t their fault or my wife’s fault, but I really wanted to be there for them.

And so, what I did was I said… At Christmas, our first Christmas together, I made these coupons and I called them quality time coupons. I gave them to them on Christmas morning and I said, “These are your board meeting coupons, quality time coupons.” And they’re like, “Well, what’s a board meeting?” I said, “Well, for my business or businesses, they get together every 90 days to reunite the team and look ahead to the next 90 days.” I mean, they’re seven and five. They’re not really getting it. But I said, “You cash one of these in every quarter, once every quarter, 90 days, every 90 days and we get to have a day that you plan. My phone is off and that’s what we do.” So my book is about every quarter, Pat, I get together with my children for one focus day with them, just us, and that has had huge results in my life.

I mean, for your listeners to know, for the first year, when I came into my oldest son’s life, he was a terrible student, close to failing. He was put on the spectrum for autism and suffered every night from night terrors. And so, there’s a pretty, pretty deep thing and it was hard to go through, but I was a stubborn optimist. We started to spend these one-on-one days together. Within one year, Pat, my wife and I could see the changes because there were some big conversations that we had. Within one year, he went from failing and he got the most improved student in the third grade award. They retracted the diagnosis of autism. Within a year, his night terrors were gone. So, that’s the type of results that we got. Yeah. I do a day a quarter with each one of my children.

Pat:
I love that. It sounds like a very formal situation, and I think that that perhaps could detract some people from wanting to go down this route. How do we make injecting the family board meeting easy into our busy lifestyles?

Jim:
Great question. First of all, that which we schedule gets done, so you want to put it on the calendar. When you’re approaching younger kids, the buy-in is very easy, saying, “Hey, we’re going to spend the day together, at least four hours, just you and I. You plan the day. I’m going all in. Whatever you plan, I’m going all in.” That gives buy-in. That gives excitement. Younger kids it’s no problem. Now, people are out there might have teens so they’ve neglected time, not on purpose, but it’s gone there. I think vulnerability goes a long way, Pat. What I basically say is, “Hey, look, I got 18 summers with you. After that, you’re going to go off and we’re not going to have as much time. I just want to be able to spend time with you and have some fun. So, this is not a time where I’m disciplining and reprimanding. Just every few months, let’s just spend a day together. How’s that sound?”

You lay yourself out there and there is going to be the BS detector for teens because they have a really finely tuned BS detector, but I do believe that they’ll look through that. As long as you follow a couple of rules that I could give today of what this day is about and not about, it has changed thousands of lives now, which is exciting because it’s all started with my adopted sons that I really wanted to love and be there for, and just sharing the simple format which I can share, it works.

Pat:
Yeah. Let’s get into it. Thank you.

Jim:
Yeah. So there’s three principles here, Pat, that we can go into. If they hear nothing else today, if they just remember these three, these can be the guidepost to a healthy relationship with your children even as a busy entrepreneur. The first one, Pat, is one-on-one. This is the most simple, the most profound, and the most overlooked principle when it comes to deepening relationships within your family. It’s one-on-one time that you really separate the parts to strengthen the whole, but it rarely happens. I mean, growing up as a kid, I had five brothers and sisters. I’m from an Irish Catholic family, so that means I have like 7,000 cousins. These big get-togethers, those are fun, but one-on-one time is the potency. That’s when you really put the magnifying glass on the relationship in a positive way, and it doesn’t happen very often. We want our kids to open up about deeper subjects. We want them to feel more comfortable with harder conversations. I mean, what kid wants to talk about puberty in front of their little brother? Like, “No thanks.”

And so, one-on-one time sets that stage. The potency of one-on-one time, once you start to spend it, you’ll see the difference in how deep you can actually go compared to when you have other people around. Sometimes for the busy entrepreneur, you might not be around as much, so in the nature of your spouse, they lean to or naturally closer to. For my mom and dad, my dad could sit there, Pat, and saying nothing for two hours and my mom the whole time would be like… talking the whole time, which is great. It carries the conversation. But if I really want to get my dad talking, I’ve learned that when him and I spend one-on-one time together, that’s going to make the difference. So principle number one is that simple thing. It’s great for you and your wife to be with your son and daughter, but it’s also real important for you to be with your daughter, your wife to be with your son. When you do that, you strengthen the whole.

Pat:
Love it. That’s so fantastic. You’re right. I think that especially with larger families, having that one-on-one time can be quite difficult. Again, putting it in the calendar, making room for it, and having it just becomes something that’s known. I also love the idea, especially to get the buy-in from the kids, that they get to choose what happens during that time. And then through those times, those questions can come about. I think there was a movie that just came out on Netflix that my daughter is wanting to see. It’s called Yes Day. It’s kind of similar, right?

Jim:
It’s very similar, very similar, because we’re always saying no or we’re always pushing our own agenda. We’re pushing people as entrepreneurs. We think we know what our kids want. So, let’s say you and I like football. So we’re going to go to a Chargers game and we’re going to bring our sons along. At the end of the day, we give ourselves a punch in the arms. Isn’t it great? We bond, but they have no interest in football. They didn’t really want to go to a football game today. They’re like, “Well, this is what I wanted to do.” When you let them pick the day, what I’ve seen, Pat, is it gives ownership. It gives creativity.

All parents say to me, “I want to support my kids gifts and talents more. I want to figure out what they’re interested in.” If you start to let them plan a day with you every quarter, you’re going to start to have that rise to the top. I mean, my oldest son, he started to choose fishing, a lot of our family board meetings together. Well, he’s 17 going on 18 now. He’s about to get his captain’s license and he wants to have his own charter fishing business.

Pat:
Wow. That’s so cool.

Jim:
Yeah. So you see these things supported and you’re going to learn so much about them if you let them plan the day. It’s really, really fun.

Pat:
Can 18 summers… That’s not very many. I actually was telling my kids about your book and I framed the 18 summers and they’re like, “18, that’s it?” And I was like, “Yeah, that’s it. So let’s make the best of it.” I’m definitely going to start to implement a lot of the stuff in this book and in this conversation. Okay. So rule number one, one-on-one.

Jim:
One-on-one.

Pat:
It makes complete sense.

Jim:
If you hear nothing else, start to get one-on-one with each member of your family. It will change the dynamic of the entire family for the better. Rule number two, I call it… It’s something we coined for 18 Summers, we teach it all over now, it’s called intermittent tech fasting, intermittent tech fasting. Now, you’ve heard of intermittent fasting, right? We all have. I try to practice it. It’s good for weight loss, weight maintenance, organ revitalization. If you do it, you’re not giving up eating, Pat, you’re just very disciplined on the times you’re going to be eating or not going to be eating, right? So you’re not giving up food. I’m not current encouraging anyone to give up technology. Heck, we couldn’t be talking across the country right now at the beginning of summer if we didn’t have technology. I love technology, but there’s a time and a place. You do have to disconnect to reconnect.

So when I spend these half days or full days every quarter with my sons or my daughter, my phone is not invited. My laptop is not invited. Their phone is not invited. Their laptop is not invited. Because it’s gotten so much in the way of real conversation. And as soon as you get that one text, that one email, that one Facebook thread you don’t really need to look at, you’ve just proven that that’s more important than them. You’ve flown the coop. The best way I can illustrate this is a story that I share. A couple of years ago, my daughter and I were supposed to be getting together for a board meeting, I was running late. First thing she wanted to do was jump on the trampoline. And then I believe we were going up to the beach to do sandcastles. Just her. And then we were going to a restaurant. Well, we get on the trampoline at our house, our kids love the trampoline, and my phone buzzed in my pocket. You know that noise, Pat? That…

Pat:
Yep.

Jim:
So I pull out my phone and someone has really messed up a real estate deal that I’m going in. It was something that I thought was easy, simple – really frustrating. So I’m swearing under my breath and looking at this. I now go into the solving the problem issue. Am I there on the trampoline with my daughter? Not at all. Of course, we try to fake like we are. She looks right at me, she was about four, and she said, “Daddy, why are you so mad at me?”

Pat:
Geez.

Jim:
And that was one of the biggest lessons that I’ve ever had. We try to fake as entrepreneurs. We try to have that on, we try to take that one thing, we think we’re emotionally grounded enough, where we can get dragged into a work thing. Even that noise can drag you. But what I’ve found is people almost say when they start to turn their phone off for four or five hours at a time to spend with their children, first it feels a little weird because you don’t want to have this thing in front of you. But also when you put these to the side, that’s when conversation can happen. That’s when complete buy-ins or whatever you’re doing happens, full awareness, full attention. There’s an underlying level of respect you’re showing that most people don’t do.

I say, when was the last time you were with your child and you did not take any phone, any text, just you and them one-on-one? A lot of entrepreneurs can’t name a single time. So what I’ve found is to get below the surface, intermittent tech fasting is one of the most important things I do. I do one every day. Normally, at my house, 5:30 to 7:30, tech is off in our house. That way, not one person is interrupting the flow of conversation or activity. And then definitely on my date night, definitely on these days that I have with my kids each quarter, Pat, my phone is not invited. Everything else can wait.

I don’t need to be Snapchatting the moments or Instagramming it live. What I will do is I’ll have my phone on airplane mode. And then at the end of the day or during the day, I’ll commemorate one or two photos just to have, because now I have a decade of these family board meeting days with each of my kids. Now, they’ve gone from my waist, two-feet taller than me. But anyway, the phones have to turn off. If you want to connect with your family, start to practice intermittent tech fasting. You got to disconnect to reconnect.

Pat:
I love that idea. I mean, the same thing happened with me with regards to email, always checking email, because just the next email might be the thing that could change everything or there could be an emergency I might need to take care of or what have you. And the phone is even worse because those notifications just interrupt everything you’re doing. I’ve come to learn that a few hours away from the device doesn’t ever mean something’s going to blow up. I can always take care of it later typically, even if it’s an emergency, even just a couple hours away from it. I’ll get back to it. I’ll be able to take care of it. We don’t let other people interrupt our time. And so, thank you for that validation, because that’s really key. That’s the big thing for me. It’s like, “Well, if I don’t get back right away, that’s okay.” I think it’s hard because entrepreneurs, especially in the beginning, we’re taught that the quicker we reply, the more in front of, or in front of people, the better our business will be, but at what expense, right?

Jim:
Yeah. I think that’s true in the very infancy phase. What I’ve actually found, Pat, and I’m sure you’ve seen as well, sometimes if I step away for a few hours and there’s an issue, I’ve actually come back from a family board meeting or a date night and there’ll be a chain of emails where the team worked it out on their own.

Pat:
Yeah. Right.

Jim:
Had I been there, I wouldn’t have done any good anyway. So I thought that’s pretty interesting. So sometimes a little bit of weight and not being on that text right away or that email or that phone call, giving myself that space has actually helped improve my business and let it flow smoother.

Pat:
That’s so true. That’s so true. Empowering your team to help take care of those things so that you can get some time back too, I mean, that’s why you have the team. Give them some responsibility and some ownership, and everybody’s happy in that way. So, thank you for that. I love that. Let’s finish up with the third rule. So we had one-on-one, intermittent tech fasting. What was the third rule when it comes to these things?

Jim:
The third rule is fun activity with focused reflection. Let me tell you what that is. It’s what we’ve been talking about the whole time. Your child plans the day, and you go all in. So basically, they’re going to plan the day, the activity. You’re going to go all in, and at the end, focused reflection, you’re going to spend some time talking. Fun activity with focused reflection is like the basis of experiential education. My wife and I are really into alternative education. I think this is so underutilized and has such great results. So when you go all in, you do their activity, you have a meal together, and then at the end, you spend a little time talking, man, some magic can happen.

I’ll tell you what, you go through something called decompression. Once you’re going through decompression, this is when vulnerability starts to rise, emotional availability starts to go up. What has happened in these moments, where it’s been written back to me by lots of people, including Hal, who introduced us, to use this strategy when he was sick with cancer, you have the strength and the focus and the vulnerability to give a sincere compliment or a really sincere apology. Sometimes our kids are in the need of that. Man, Pat, I mean, as entrepreneurs, we work really hard, but sometimes we think we’re immune to apologizing. We think we’re immune to slowing down and showing appreciation and complimenting our child. These are the moments that I’ve seen these happen. So this is the third stage.

When you’re one-on-one, your tech fasting, you’ve let your child plan the day and you go all in, and then at the end you spend a little time talking, you can have these huge, huge results. Let me just make this really clear: this is not a time to give your next 50 lectures on what they need to do to improve as a student or your son or daughter. If you do that, the board meeting strategy fails. But if you’ll just be a little bit open, you’ll be vulnerable, you’ll maybe offer a genuine compliment or sincere apology, this is where I continually reground the relationship with my children. Because you know what, Pat, I mess up every 90 days. Every parent does. We get thin, we get impatient, we get hyper-focused on project we’re working on. This is the times where I swallow my pride and sometimes I say words or I’ve said words . . .

That first year with my adoptive son, I’m not naturally someone that likes to speak emotionally or vulnerably. I mean, the things I would say to him, I wanted to throw up. It was just very uncomfortable for me, but those are the words he needed to hear and it has changed the trajectory of his life and my relationship. If we’ll take ownership of that, this is absolutely the tie in of why the family board meeting strategy works. One-on-one, scheduling great, phone off, great, but you go all in on activity and have an open communication at the end, it is a lock into your relationship. They will never forget these times. As my wife says, “Every time you come back, I feel you’re regrounded with each one of our children and you’re exiting on a higher plane.” And that’s what we all want.

Pat:
Wow, that’s so impactful. I think this episode is going to change lives, Jim. Thank you so, so much for coming on today. I’ll talk a little bit more about this at the end of the episode and some personal experiences. I’ll share some more in the Friday follow-up episode too. But Jim, where can go to find your organization and the book and all the good things that you have to offer?

Jim:
Yeah. You’ll find The Family Board Meeting on Amazon. If you want to learn more about what we do, you can go to 18Summers.com, and you’ll be able to get some of our free downloads about setting rhythms and strategies into your family life.

Pat:
Cool, Jim, thank you so much for this. We appreciate you. I look forward to connecting with you outside of the podcast at some point in the future, too.

Jim:
Sounds good, Pat. Appreciate it.

Pat:
All right. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Jim Sheils. Again, you can find his book, The Family Board Meeting over on Amazon. You can also find out more about his business at 18Summers.com. Isn’t that nuts? 18 summers and likely if you have kids, you probably have less than 18 summers unless you just had a newborn. With me, I got ten summers left with my daughter and I have seven summers left with my son. That’s insane. So you can be sure that as you were listening to this right now, my family and I, my wife, April, my two kids, Keoni and Kailani, and myself are doing everything we can to enjoy every single waking moment together as much as possible. So I hope you do the same. We’re definitely going to have some family board meetings down the road. One-on-ones, that’s the key. That’s the biggest takeaway that I took from this, especially if you have more than one kid.

So cheers, take care. Thank you so much for listening in today. Hit that subscribe button if you haven’t already, and I hope you enjoyed this episode. Let me know what you think. I’m @PatFlynn on Twitter or Instagram. Again, @PatFlynn. Stick around because on Friday, we’re going to have a follow-up to this. It’ll just be you and me, we’re going to go even deeper. So our follow-up Friday episode coming soon at you, if it’s not published already. If it is, you can just hit play on the next episode, it’ll be there for you.

Thanks so much and as always, Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I’m your host, Pat Flynn. Sound design and editing by Paul Grigoras. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess, our series producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media. We’ll catch you in the next session.